Conversation with an Exit Counselor, 1987

I've been cleaning out my files, and I came upon notes from my conversation with an exit counselor back in 1987.  I hope you will enjoy reading some of his comments:

"Of all the groups I have dealt with, some of the most severe casualties have been in TM.  This is in direct contradiction to TM publicity.  Meditation techniques are not appropriate for everyone, because some people have difficulty distinguishing between the inner content and outer content of their minds.  Such people can go into a psychotic state from doing meditation, because these techniques loosen boundaries between the conscious and the unconscious.  For the average person, this is a pleasure, because most people have too many boundaries there.  But for a minority of people, it is dangerous to have the boundary more porous." 

[Editor's comment:  When I saw the film "David Wants to Fly," I had the good fortune to find Dr. Herbert Benson, author of "The Relaxation Response" sitting right behind me!  I introduced myself to him, and he told me a few stories.  Included was, "I observed the course in Fuiggi, Italy.  Since I am an M.D., when I and course participants got off the plane in the U.S., I did sign a bunch of them straight into mental hospitals."] 

"So it was normal for people in TM to "freak out" -- to have highs, lows, get emotional." 

[Editor's comment:  In the TM world, careening highs and lows were considered normal, even positive.  It was called unstressing, and we were told that it meant the person was throwing off old stress.]

I suggested to the exit counselor that TM had a special hook for the average Westerner because it backs up its beliefs with appeals to science.  He replied, "Scientology also bombards people with statistics."  


"If you have a busy, multidimensional life, to sit down for 20 minutes is okay.  But if meditation becomes a goal in itself, it's bad.  It's like fasting.  The first time you do it, it feels good, healing.  But if you continue to fast, it turns on itself.  The mind is similar - it needs information and stimulation.  Without outside stimulation, it stimulates itself.  Thus, inner material comes out.  The person becomes increasingly swallowed up in their inner world, and outside decisions and the outer world become more difficult."

"I feel TM has a callous view of people.  I've treated one of Maharishi's lovers.  She was seduced and abandoned by Mahesh.  She became psychotic.  He promised he would marry her; then she was told, "You're being sent to Switzerland." 

[Editor's comment:  This strikes me as Mahesh being callous, not the TM organization.  But I believe he set the tone, and did make policy for the TMO that was callous.]

"Dr. Herbert Benson's book 'The Relaxation Response' demonstrates that one can create TM-like results without TM.  By any autohypnosis technique, one can do this.  TM's marketing insisted that TM was distinct."

"True scientific research shows that anyone can have a TM-like response.  Almost all psychologists discredit TM research as self-serving and flawed.  For instance, the research on reduced crime is totally without controls, confounding factors, etc.  That research is extremely specious.  All TM research is designed to hook people in.  The TMO allows scientific proofs but not scientific critiques.  When you were in TM, you were only exposed to the research that they wanted you to see."

[Editor's comment:  Is TM research still in disrepute?  I think much less so.  It's being taught in some public schools and veterans' organizations.  And I believe the Surgeon General recently had an amiable discussion with a leading TM proponent.]  

Hope you enjoyed this trip down memory lane.  

Indoctrination is Subtle and Sneaky

At TM-Free we recently received a question from a concerned former TMer. What I found interesting about the email was that its writer is quite savvy about the hypocrisy of the TM organization, and has put a lot of serious research into cult issues. It brought home to me how there's always more to be learned about mind control, how it's all around us, how vulnerable we are to its sneaky tactics, and how we have to keep practicing our critical thinking. It also reminded me that we at TM-Free can serve a role in helping people learn how to deal with people they love who may be involved in a destructive cult.  

IMPORTANT NOTE: We at TM-Free are not professionals counselors in this field. If you are concerned about someone, read and consult professionals such as those listed on the right at our home page. (Note: We do NOT recommend the Cult Awareness Network, since that organization was bought by Scientologists a decade or so ago). 

Here is the question from the reader: I wonder if any of you know anything about the "XYZ" group. A dear relative of mine has gotten into it and swears her "cult radar" is not going off. But I keep seeing things in it that remind me of other groups that use undue influence. She is highly aware of the influence of group think, (emphasis added), having been along for the ride during the T.M. circus years in Switzerland during the 70's....  

Response from various TM-Free editors:  Keep an eye on things.  It doesn't necessarily matter how much she knew about cults ahead of time.  Once the right kind of person is in a trance state, the executive control function of the brain is shut down.  And without the executive control function, any foreknowledge about cults is not being processed or applied to the current situation.  Cult dogma can then be steadily ladled in without the person realizing it's happening.

And afterwards the person still doesn't know it happened, even after being away from the indoctrination experience for awhile.  People can't detect reality shifts; they don't remember what reality was like before the indoctrination.

Of course everything depends on how much "the right sort of person" she is.  Maybe she's not.

If you research nothing else, please watch this amazing YouTube for a demonstration of surreptitious induction of dissociation, and of exploiting it to change people's beliefs in under 5 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzn9rX7rauA 

This is an extraordinary demonstration of how easy it is to get people under your thumb, of how to be a cult leader.

Do look up the group in some of the websites listed on the right.  Also, here are some questions that might help you determine if she's unknowingly come under their influence:  Does she seem evangelical about the group?  Defensive about criticism of it?  Questioning of it?  How much does she say her life was "transformed"?  Is she keen to go back for more?  Is she keen to get you to go?

I can understand you wanting to keep at arm's length from the group, but it I were you I'd start asking her to share what she had learned from the experience, and what growth she felt she had achieved from it.  For one thing, you might get a better idea of where her head is at regarding it.  And if there are current or potential problems, you're better off establishing that she can share things with you, thus keeping the line of communication open.  

If she starts sliding down the slope into full-scale cult involvement, you want her to share the ride with you as much as possible.  You would then be an open connection to reality.  The reason that you want to back off if she gets defensive is to avoid triggering a cognitive dissonance response.  If she gets defensive, then don't be critical about the group, or she might disconnect as far as sharing about it goes:

http://goo.gl/MWaj 

which would shut down communication.

Or of course everything might be just fine with her.  It still wouldn't do any harm to open a dialogue about it with her.  Just be interested, curious and respectful when asking, not critical, to see how things lie.

The "cult leader" in the video mentioned above is Derren Brown.  Brown is a master of a classic branch of stage magic called "Mentalism."  You can find many excerpts from his performances on YouTube.  A "mentalist" is a performer who simulates having supernatural powers, but who is honest that it is all a fake.  A mentalist uses mental acuity, cold reading, warm reading, hot reading, principles of stage magic, hypnosis and/or suggestion to present the illusion of mind reading, psychokinesis, extra-sensory perception, precognition, clairvoyance or mind control.

In other words, a mentalist uses the exact same techniques that a cult leader uses.  The only difference is that the mentalist is honest about it all being an act.

(Thanks to Wikipedia and www.suggestibility.org for selected quotes).

ABC News Nightline with Deepak Chopra, "Does God Have a Future?"

Many former TMers knew Deepak Chopra, his split with Maharishi, then Chopra's repackaging of Maharishi's programs in a slightly more mainstream package for his own financial gain.

Deepak Chopra is now more of a household name than Maharishi ever was, thus ABC invited him to a discussion on spirituality.

Nightline's description of this show :

The "Face-Off" is a recurring series where opposing sides debate hot topics. In the sixth installment of the series, Deepak Chopra, a physician and best-selling author of "How to Know God," and prominent scholar, philosopher and writer Jean Houston, will face-off against Michael Shermer, founding publisher of "Skeptic" magazine, and Sam Harris, author of "The End of Faith" on the tension between God and science."

Gina's comments on the show:

This conversation between critical thinkers with Chopra could just as easily have taken place with Maharishi.
In this conversation, Chopra mouthes MMY's teachings, sometimes word for word.
Coming from the same Hindu tradition, the Indian accent, and MMY's pseudo-science jargon, Chopra inadvertently provides good comedy for those familiar with Maharishi.

Chopra speaks circuitous non-sense which can cause a hypnotic effect for vulnerable listeners.
We've seen the hypnotic effect work with True Believers listening to Maharishi.

Chopra responds to discussion of the history of diety and sociology of religion with vague circuitous monologues on consciousness, inner experience and (undefined) quantum mechanics. This sounds so familiar!

Many of us know the futility of conducting these same conversations with TM or New Age True Believers!
(thus successful exit-counseling, "deprogramming," requires a professional)

Per Sam Harris talking to Chopra :
"Sprinkling in a bunch of scientific terms with New Age terminology does not make it scientific."
Harris also states that Chopra's merging of New Age philosophy with scientific terminology is neither scientific nor spiritual.

Unfortunately, True Believers listening to this show would merely state that critics of Chopra or Maharishi are "lost in the darkness of ignorance."

It's fascinating to watch Chopra spew the fluff, and become angry when confronted with analysis of his teachings.

This Nightline show may be watched by clicking :
"Does God Have a Future" The Nightline Face-Off

Enjoy!

Post-Hypnotic Suggestion and Trance Logic

"How could I have believed such dumb stuff? And how come I still believe it sometimes? And how come I went against my morals and lied to people when I was a TM teacher? And how come I couldn't see through Maharishi's pathetic so-called logic?"

Those are four good questions that some people who have left the TM organization ask themselves.

Looking at the TM experience through the lens of post-hypnotic suggestion and trance logic may provide a possible answer to these questions.

A post-hypnotic suggestion is an instruction the hypnotist gives the subject while the subject is in the hypnotic state, which the subject is to carry out after he is out of that state. For instance, the hypnotist may say to her subject, "A few minutes after I take you out of the hypnotic state, I will say the word 'horseradish.' When I do, that will be your cue to lie down on the floor." The hypnotist then awakens the subject from his hypnotic state. A few minutes later, she says 'horseradish." And sure enough, the subject lies down on the floor.

Ha ha. Stage hypnotists have gotten laughs for this sort of entertainment. Now the story gets even more interesting. The hypnotist says to the person on the floor, "Why are you lying on the floor?" The floor-lier does not reply, "Why, because you gave me a post-hypnotic suggestion to lie down when you said 'horseradish'." Nor does he say, "I had this sudden impulse to lie down on the floor, but I don't know where it came from." Instead, he says, "I was tired; I just had to lie down." Strange, huh?

It gets even stranger. The hypnotist presses the person, saying, "If you were tired, why didn't you go back to your seat? Why did you lie on the floor on the stage in front of this whole audience?" Now the subject does not answer, "You're right. I sure am behaving strangely." Instead he says, "I felt too tired to walk all the way back to my seat," or "I'm more comfortable lying down than sitting, " or "The chairs smell funny," or "It's healthy to rest on a hard surface."

This is known as "trance logic." Trance logic is garbled logic, logic used to rationalize trance-related moments, logic that the person would find unsatisfactory under normal circumstances. The person is not aware he is rationalizing, and he is not aware that his logic is faulty.

For some of us, our TM beliefs and behaviors may have been acquired in a similar way. For instance, in 1972 I attended a residence course where we meditated up to six times a day. I started that residence course as a skeptic about TM. I came out one month later as a true believer who wanted to become a TM teacher. If you had asked me back then what happened on that course to change my beliefs, I would have said that I had learned new and wonderful things, that I saw the light, and that I was convinced by the scientists. What I would not have said was, "Meditating many times a day produced something akin to a hypnotic trance, and I was given a post-hypnotic suggestion to believe in TM and to become a TM teacher."

A person very dear to me attended a similar one-month TM course in 1974, and wrote me during the course, "I have a sensation like I am holding onto a wall, and a strong wind is tearing me off the wall, moving me to become a TM teacher, and it is only a matter of time before I will give way." After the TM course, she, like I, became a TM teacher. Looking back, 35 years later, her words sound to me like she could have been describing a post-hypnotic suggestion being implanted. Her words almost sound like a plea for help. What do you think?

When I went on my TM teacher training course in 1974, I meditated up to 12 times a day. On that course we were taught - or given a post-hypnotic suggestion? - to lie to our students if we thought it would help spread the TM message.

Maybe some attendees really did see the light or were convinced by the scientists. But how about me? How about you? Did you become a TM true believers because you were given post-hypnotic suggestions to believe? Did I, did you, lie to TM students, despite our ethical standards, because of post-hypnotic suggestions to lie? Did I, did you, rationalize this lying, due to trance logic? And did I, did you, use tortured logic to defend the TM movement because of trance logic?