Oil and Wind and Water. oy veh!
The image is from today's CNN story.
I wish there were a way to show this to Guru Bev or Raga Hagelin and inquire, straight faced and in all sincerity, for an explanation of Inwincible America. Course, the answer, today, is obvious: it ain't over 'till it's over. - which both Guru Bev and Raga Hagelin have no doubt practised to perfection in front of a mirror, facing east, of course.
By the time it's over other much more important questions will need to be asked, such as how to prevent this in the future. Lucky for Guru Bev and the imaginary raja, Hagelin, by then no one will bother with such nonsense as Maheshism's inwincibility; or will this still be an actual belief in the quasi-religion of Maheshism and the dogma of worshipping Mahesh's ego?
Don't forget to click on the Title to find out more about the ridiculous beliefs of the TM organization.
19 comments:
one man's ridiculous beliefs are another man's bread and butter
That's an interesting rebuke, Sal. But I gave the word ridiculous some thought and consideration, especially in light of Hagelin's raga about how butt-bouncing was upping the stock market and protecting the US from hurricanes.
All this was right before Katrina and the downturn in the economy. While I have no doubt that now they are simply spindoctoring their way around this little mishap in self-glorification, still it seems to me that the beliefs of the Church of Mahesh are not just substantially deviant from what might be considered the norm, but outright ridiculous.
After all, Church, Mosque and Synagogue all subscribe to the beneficence of Prayer, but they don't claim that it science or that it is guaranteed.
"...After all, Church, Mosque and Synagogue all subscribe to the beneficence of Prayer, but they don't claim that it science or that it is guaranteed...."
Religion appears to be located in the realm of Belief and Hope.
I know how to design water systems that will store,
pump and distribute this important liquid to most locations at various pressures and volumes.
I cannot design rain schedules or cause a downpour.
Many people can objectively execute the first.
Many people claim to be able to do the second.
I have NO objections to doing my Science & Engineering for onlookers, skeptics and the interested public. I'll even review the design and engineering for any curious party.
Very very few of the second group will do the same.
Engineers and scientists will often be eager to discuss their ideas. Religious and Spiritual types often avoid direct sunlight and public scrutiny.
The only exception are the Religious types that engage in prayer for the general welfare of others or for the health and healing of a specific few.
Yes, medicine also is not exact with regard to outcome
yet compared to Spiritual hocus-pocus it is an exact science.
I'm always delighted when great Teachers in the 20 -21 Century become ill. Their use of Western medicine and technology is sometime kept secret for the very purpose of maintaining image.
I've attended many basic Western worship services in the past. Its interesting to see how the ignorant masses pray for the benefit of just about everyone. They collect food, money and clothes for the unfortunate and in their
unenlightened ignorance appear to be generally concerned.
Somehow, i missed this in the groups that embrace the various traditions of awakening/enlightenment.
(Yes, Ramana Maharshi fed everyone at His ashram daily.
Hmm - what about the many others?)
Those foolish Christians and Jews.
They think that feeding the hungry, caring for the sick and sheltering the homeless makes a difference.
Such incredible ignorance.
Butt bouncing, Repetitive trance induction, supplication of the Energies of the Universe (DON"T call them Gods!)
and denial of all the qualities and behaviors that make us human.
Ignorance is quite appealing.
I ate a wonderful meal on the waterfront with other techno geeks yesterday. Earlier, we smoke a few excellent cigars and drank delightful wine with our seafood. And the best, most of the women we smiled at smiled back! A few even waved and chatted with us.
To me, last night was a TRUE display of Siddhi.
Great company, enjoying the bounty of the sea and vines
and delighting in attractive women with a real sparkle in their eyes.
Please email me if anyone ever wants to attend one of my "advanced lectures" to discuss the Mahavakya
'Lokananda Samadhi Sukham" ;)
You will be glad you did.
Those foolish Christians and Jews.
They think that feeding the hungry, caring for the sick and sheltering the homeless makes a difference.
A remark like, ed, tells me you are so full of yourself that you can't tell you arse from your elbow.
Hey, Sal, perhaps we should not be quite so quick to leap to condemnation, although it is obvious that ed has overlooked the people who were helped who, I am certain, feel that a very important difference has been made. -- The history of many religions seems to be that they start off being persecuted then get the upper hand and deal harshly with their former persecutors. Christianity (although I prefer "x-ianity") did a really horrible job (or is that a really excellent job) of contradicting their supposed founder's remarks about loving one's enemies. They have, at least in the 20th century, begun to clean up their act, at least somewhat.
I wonder, Sal, if we will see Maheshism do anything similar. Mahesh like many people from the Indian Subcontinent seemed, by our Western standards, to have been overly sympathetic to Hitler, for example. Will Maheshism become some sort of Nazi-like social phenomenon? Is it already well on its way.
To me, this seems something much more critical to watch for and to campaign against.
"Those foolish Christians and Jews.
They think that feeding the hungry, caring for the sick and sheltering the homeless makes a difference.
A remark like, ed, tells me you are so full of yourself that you can't tell you arse from your elbow."
Sal, you missed the point by a mile.
Western Religions have taken a beating at the hands of Eastern Traditions. The TM Group was no exception with their condescending attitude that Western Religions are merely a branch off the trunk of the Vedic tree.
Eastern traditions talk about evolution, Sat Dharma, support of nature but basically it is all talk.
The so-called ignorant Western Traditions engage in all sorts of humanitarian works in spite of their alleged ignorance of the subtle structure of the universe and its operation. They do make a difference and work at it continually.
Sal, you missed the irony and sarcasm of my comment.
Re read it and see if your understanding changes.
Amazingly, I have to agree with Ed. Religion generally is an outdated and unreliable source of knowledge, social order and mental peace. Ed may be a little too general in criticizing Eastern religions for not helping their neighbors. Some of them do but generally Indians do not seem to have that much concern for their larger family, only their own immediate families, which they try to dominate and micro manage. India has always been a very wealthy country. It's just that the wealth is held by very few. Those few, just as in the West, don't have much compassion. Corruption starts at the top. The wealthy in India and the government itself will not pay a living wage to their workers, which creates more corruption and crime. Recently a Hindu friend of mine was reacting to criticism about Indians who tend to only be concerned with prosperity and not meditation. They plague their own saints and gurus with pleas for better jobs, male progeny, etc. She said that Americans have everything they need to live and have the luxury of being interested in spirituality. Politely, no one pointed out that we are a bankrupt country, that there are more Indian millionaires in the US than any other ethnic group, according to an article I read some years ago in Hinduism Today, that Indians generally, including gurus, only come here to shake the money tree not to improve our society, but most especially that 99.9% of Indians who go to gurus asking for more wealth already have some. The poor in India can not even approach Gurus. They are kept away. It would be like a poor black man in the 1950's trying to talk to the Pope.
One thing I cannot agree with Ed on is the glorification of science as opposed to religion. Religion has been a mixed blessing for sure. Millions have been killed and held captive in the name of God, etc. This is true. Humanity would be much better off if we were just left to our own basic disorganized goodness. But science is itself a false religion. A little knowledge truly is a very dangerous thing. The growth of science and technology without a corresponding rise in the kind of intelligence known as wisdom and compassion is the most destructive force in the history of the world. We are literally destroying our planet with it now. It is quite possible that we have already done it and just waiting for that realization to dawn. Religion is also not a reliable path to attain wisdom and compassion. Unfortunately, Suffering with a capital S is the reliable way to arrive there. I am not opposed to Ed sitting around with other jackasses smoking cigars and eating seafood. But I am glad he's doing it on the East Coast.
"...I am not opposed to Ed sitting around with other jackasses smoking cigars and eating seafood. But I am glad he's doing it on the East Coast...."
I'm sure that if i engaged in name calling, John Knapp would be on my case.
You have the right to your opinion but i assure you , the very successful business people i associate with do not in any way meet your description.
As far as me, you make the decision.
You can email me at eptfnj@yahoo.com if you want to engage in a personal dialog. I will also send you my cellphone number.
My bet is that you prefer to grandstand and put on a show.
Are you and Sal married?
Ed, you have been calling most of the people here "whiners" for as long as I can remember. But you are correct that I shouldn't have called you and your buddies jackasses. I apologize. Sometimes I get carried away.
Betty
PS I am married but don't know anyone named Sal.
"Ed, you have been calling most of the people here "whiners" for as long as I can remember. But you are correct that I shouldn't have called you and your buddies jackasses..."
Yes, I have and will continue to call people that will not accept responsibility for their own problems, whiners.
I am fair game but will NOT call the associates or friends of contributors whiners since they have nothing to do with the typical topic of discussion.
"...I apologize. Sometimes I get carried away...."
Apologies are a sign a weakness.
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Betty
WTF?
Umm, ed, don't drag me into this! ;-)
As far as I know, I've never commented on your name calling. You asked me to post an article of yours, and I said sure, why not. At that time, I did suggest you consider whether hostile or hurtful language would achieve what you desired, but didn't in any way try to restrict your speech. As I said at the time, if you would submit it, I would publish it—unless it seemed your language or tone was so over the top that it would cause actual pain for readers. And even then, I indicated I wouldn't reject your article out of hand, but would communicate my concerns and work with you in case there were any changes you felt you could make to satisfy your concerns.
I'm not sure you'll get a better offer from any editor, online or onpaper.
For whatever reason, you chose not to submit your article. But the offer still stands.
In fact, my memory may be faulty, but I don't think I've commented on anyone's language or name calling in the last couple years.
As far as I am concerned, you have the same freedom here as everyone else: post whatever you want, except spam or what most people would consider abusive or defamatory speech.
Calling an unnamed group "whiners" isn't exactly abusive, although I'd be very surprised if you made any friends or even garnered many readers.
As far as I can tell, your message has remained remarkably consistent for years. Frankly, I skip over most of your posts because I have the feeling I know what you will say without reading it. I've heard that others have a similar response.
Whatever itch posting hostile comments on TMFB scratches for you, by all means, enjoy!
Or perhaps you could find some new material?
J.
>>Some of them do but generally Indians do not seem to have that much concern for their larger family, only their own immediate families, which they try to dominate and micro manage
When I was in India, as a guest of Dr Varma, MMY's uncle, I was struck by the lack of concern for the poor by middle-class Indians. Fat Indian women wearing gold bangles up to their elbows would just step over homeless people sleeping on the pavement. When I asked about this, I was told that their unfortunate situation was strictly due to their karma from previous lives and thus required no assistance. I also met the Catholic nuns who worked at the leper hospital, surely one of the most difficult jobs on the planet.
Ed with all your amazing insights and brave barking and you remind me of a friend's Teacup Chihuahua. Three and one half pounds of fighting fury! But when you're right, you're right. Just because some other immature guys with phallic symbols in their smoking hands, who may have some temporarily useful technical knowledge that can be turned into cash are seated at the same table with you, doesn't necessarily mean they are the same kind of braying donkey you are. But save the John Wayne advice. It just makes you sound like a weak sister. Any of your great words of wisdom will automatically be filed in a place where the sun don't shine.
Betty
"...you remind me of a friend's Teacup Chihuahua."
"..Just because some other immature guys with phallic symbols in their smoking hands.."
"...doesn't necessarily mean they are the same kind of braying donkey you are."
"...But save the John Wayne advice. It just makes you sound like a weak sister."
Betty,
It is VERY easy to call people names and put down their associates. This type of behavior is indicative of an inability to engage in dialog.
What's your problem?
How about dealing with the substance of my comments instead of me.
It's an old technique to attack the character and/or intelligence of another instead of their arguments. The point is to undermine the person in the eyes of others so as to render anything they say an insubstantial.
Name calling and cheap shots are immature behavior.
Are you capable of discussion?
What are you afraid of?
"Calling an unnamed group "whiners" isn't exactly abusive, although I'd be very surprised if you made any friends or even garnered many readers."
I don't go to the gym to make friends.
Hopefully, it is to get some level of work out.
I don't completely read most of what is posted here because of the predictability of the contributors.
So, fair is fair.
I am interested in the chance that someone will delve into the "why" of the spiritual need and the "how" to resolve it one way or another.
Complaining is a natural response to a negative stimulus.
Imagine having a small rock in your shoe. At first it is an annoyance, then a irritant and finally quite painful.
Logically you remove your show and take out the rock.
There are situations where you cannot remove the shoe.
Then, once removed, you assess the damage to your foot and apply some remedy.
Finally, determine how to prevent further rocks from getting into the shoe.
I typically don't see any type of analysis here.
What is our problem?
How is it affecting us?
What are the causes?
Can the problem be resolved?
I am gambling that someone will take me up on mutual dialog. Sometimes fishing consumes alot of time without any bites. I never eat the fish - always toss them back for others. The act of fishing itself is not the reason everyone chooses to fish.
Just fishing.
y'know, ed, when I read what you write, my very first impression is that you are coming across with the lame diplomacy of a garlic sandwich and I don't want to be bothered.
However, as with all of our contributors, I feel I need to knuckle down and try to actually hear what you are saying. Frankly, it's difficult, but you have often shared some insights that are valuable. That your presentation style is less than inviting seems to me to be doing yourself a very unfortunate injustice, however.
No, I'm not suggesting that you change anything. Any self-imposed change comes across as phony and, I think you have sufficient difficulties being heard as it is.
Sigh.
I'm reminded of horses and water and not drinking for some odd reason.
J.
"y'know, ed, when I read what you write, my very first impression is that you are coming across with the lame diplomacy of a garlic sandwich and I don't want to be bothered."
Amazing.
Presentation style is ALSO assessed along with the person.
This does not seem like a place for dialog as a need to go-with-the-flow of a clubhouse mentality.
What is the problem asking someone (you?) to deal with the substance of a contribution and not the writing style, wording or the contributor?
I don't post here for friendship but for reaction to ideas.
Aside from the constant regurgitation of the problems associated with Maharishi, his techniques and the organization, people seem "stuck".
There is ample evidence regarding the dissatisfaction with everything TM. OK - that has been made clear.
Whats next?
Change the technique?
Forget all about meditation?
Question the premise itself?
Question WHY people need to search?
It appears that people can't let go of the disease and will not consider remedies.
Let me try the approach used by you and Betty.
You have this typically pompous and condescending attitude of the old TM "I know and you don't". It was typical of the old TM guard to criticize the person and attack their ideas
in order to render them of no consequence.
If I had the same writing style and interests as you and others, what would be the point of contributing?
Might as well read your own material.
Does this makes sense to you?
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